Q&A with Humza Yousaf, Cabinet Secretary for Justice, on the priorities for his new brief

Humza Yousaf - Image credit: David Anderson/Holyrood

Were you surprised to be promoted and given the justice brief?

From the moment I committed myself to public service, all I've wanted to do is my very best for my country.  I've never had any expectation but of course as an individual, I have always wanted to continue to develop and grow, both personally and professionally. I certainly wasn't expecting the justice brief but am absolutely delighted with it. And to serve in cabinet is a huge honour.

What lessons from your time as transport minister do you bring to justice?

The transport brief was the best learning experience I could have ever asked for. There are many lessons it taught me. Primarily, what doesn't kill you makes you stronger! In government, once you have made a decision, after consulting and exercising your own judgement, you should be confident in that decision and the reasons why you have made it.

The importance of partnership working – whether that’s with transport organisations or justice agencies – is vital, and good ideas to improve the lives of the people of Scotland can come from anywhere.

Likewise, we all need to work together on the actions too: the Queensferry Crossing was built with contractors, planners, local authorities, private companies, environmental agencies, individuals and the Scottish Government – we cannot do everything on our own and the contribution of all of those partners is invaluable. I want to take this collaborative working forward to all aspects of the justice brief.

What do you see as the key priorities of the brief?

Scotland has become a safer place over the last decade, with less crime, fewer victims and, importantly, better support when people are victims of crime. But we need to keep focused on doing better, particularly where a person’s likelihood of being a victim of any crime remains higher if they live in more deprived areas.

Victims' rights will be strengthened at the heart of our justice system. The powerful and upsetting testimonies I have read from rape victims about the court experience and the meetings with families who have had a loved-one murdered have already shaped a lot of my thinking in this regard.

The justice brief is wide and varied, and as such comes with a number of priorities. I want to ensure we have a safer, stronger Scotland, where people feel supported to move away from criminal activity and to report crime. 

I want to continue the good work to prevent crime from happening in the first place. There should not be a tension between the rights of victims and our desire to rehabilitate men and women who have offended. Using data to determine what works, I'll be keen to work collaboratively with partners to reduce the cycle of reoffending.

I recognise the political and media interest in the leadership of Police Scotland over recent years, and I’m keen to ensure legitimate questions about how we improve governance does not inhibit the staff and officers of Police Scotland from feeling fully supported. I want to ensure everyone – from senior officers to support staff – has the space to innovate, and develop the service so it is fit to meet the new challenges faced by our communities. I will be working closely with the Scottish Police Authority and the service to achieve that.

How justice works with other public services such as health and education is clearly very important given our commitment to prevention and early intervention. I have already had conversations with the public health minister to see how we can further combat drug deaths in Scotland – another priority.

And following Lord Bracadale’s review, I want to ensure the new hate crime legislation is fit for purpose, helping us to rid Scotland of hugely damaging discrimination that can have such a significant impact on people's lives.

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Obviously, the work that you and Anas Sarwar have done around Islamophobia has shown that good work can go on cross party when it comes to prejudice and hate crime. Do you envisage more of that kind of co-operation?

Yes, very much so. I hope I have demonstrated over the years that my personal preference has always been to find common ground with my political opponents as opposed to focusing on the differences.

It is clear to me we work regularly across parliament on issues like hate crime. We all want to send a clear, unified message, on behalf of the vast majority of people who we are elected to represent, to those who continue to commit these awful crimes. I am happy to work with anyone who wants to help combat hate crime, and my door is open to new ways in which we can do that.

Scotland’s prison population remains one of the highest in Europe, despite a presumption against short-term prison sentences. How are you going to tackle that? Is it time to go beyond ‘presumption’ and make it a ban?

Reducing the use of ineffective short-term imprisonment, and increasing the use of robust community sentences, is part of our smarter approach to tackling offending. That is why we have announced our intention to extend the presumption against short custodial sentences from 3 months to 12 months or less.

This is about acting on the clear evidence in front of us: we know more than half of those released from a prison sentence of 12 months or less are reconvicted nearly twice as often as those sentenced to a community payback order. Figures from May 2017 show that 53 per cent of offenders imprisoned for 12 months or less are reconvicted within a year. By reducing reconviction rates, we are reducing crime and therefore making our streets safer for everyone, which is our priority.

However, the presumption is just that; a presumption. It is not a ban. We are clear that prison remains the right place for those who the courts deem to pose a significant risk to public safety and so Scotland's independent courts rightly retain the discretion to pass the most appropriate sentence based on the facts and circumstances of the case.

The move towards community justice relies on suitable services being available in local areas. How are you going to ensure that these are available everywhere given the state of council budgets?

We want those who have been through the justice system, having paid their debt to society, to be supported to contribute to their community.

Tackling offending through early intervention, identifying the reasons why people offend in the first place, and helping people reintegrate into the community after custody, is at the heart of our approach.

Strong partnership working is crucial – our community justice strategy was developed with local authorities, health boards, justice agencies, the third sector, victims’ groups and people with convictions, and works to strengthen how public services, charities and communities work together to reduce and prevent offending.

We have allocated around £100 million to local authorities to deliver community sentences, support rehabilitation and reduce reoffending. We provided an additional £4 million in each of the past two years, specifically to support community sentences, increasing to £5.5 million in this year’s budget.

There has been extensive criticism of Scottish Government plans to merge British Transport Police in Scotland with Police Scotland. Are you going to carry on regardless? (note: this was asked before this week’s announcement on rail policing)

Devolution of BTP was recommended by the Smith Commission, reached through cross-party agreement, and integration will also ensure railway policing is fully accountable to the Scottish Parliament. We have confirmed that our triple-lock guarantee will protect jobs, pay and pensions for BTP officers transferring to Police Scotland.

There is a re-planning exercise currently taking place. Once that is completed, I will ensure parliament is updated on our next steps. We will never compromise the safety of the public.

Your brush with the law in terms of driving without insurance are well documented. What’s really the naughtiest thing you have ever done?

I've never shared my last Rolo, I usually dunk my digestive into cold tea, I regularly bite my ice cream and I've only managed three episodes of the West Wing because it is rubbish. All of these vices are just my polite way of saying I'm never going to tell you the naughtiest thing I've ever done :)

As for the car insurance mistake I made, there are a number of lessons for me to learn from that episode. Firstly, always double and then triple-check your documents, particularly after any major change in personal circumstances. Secondly, if you make an honest mistake, put your hands up and own up to it straight away. You'll be surprised at how understanding and forgiving the public, and even political opponents, can be.