Getting To Know You: Pam Gosal MSP

What’s your earliest memory?

My earliest memory is of mum and dad having a shop in Argyll Street in Glasgow across the road from our tenement and having family, the community, around us, the school up the road. We had to eat in the shop and nap in the shop on top of things like sacks of rice.

What were you like at school?

I was always very extrovert. I was not shy, quite confident, quite hardworking and always wanting to help, putting myself forward. And if I didn’t know anything, I was always one of the ones that would ask a lot of questions.

Were you involved in clubs and things like that?

Not clubs and stuff like that. Coming from an Asian background, we didn’t know what we were allowed to do and what we weren’t. So, not clubs, but I did get involved in things like stalls for charities.

What do you mean when you say you didn’t know what you were allowed to do?

I think it was difficult growing up in a society having that sense of belonging, but yet not having that sense of belonging. It’s very difficult to describe. When you come from an Asian family, it’s always about what other people think. It was like, is this culturally right to do for a female coming from an Asian background, always torn between two cultures and never quite getting that sense of belonging. I was lucky my dad loved his daughters and always encouraged us to do our best and today he would be very proud that his daughter has shattered a major glass ceiling by becoming the first Indian Sikh in the Scottish Parliament.

Who would be your dream dinner date?

My dream dinner date’s recently changed from Stephen Hawking to the Queen. Growing up, I’ve seen this woman on television and in magazines and newspapers. She’s given all her life to public service and always put country first, duty first. I’ll be honest, she’s a very, very strong role model. I’d love to meet her.

What’s your greatest fear?

Losing my mum. In my teenage years, I lost my dad suddenly and then I lost my big sister Kulwant to a heart and lung transplant, which were very new at the time. I remember I used to go to sleep with my mum and put my hand on her heart. It took me ages to kind of get over that. I absolutely love her and she’s been such a great role model.

Have you had her into parliament yet?

She came to the Kirking. Mum’s just under five foot and she said you’ve made me 10 foot tall. It was such a big thing in our community, being obviously the first Sikh and one of the first women of colour, along with [SNP MSP] Kaukab Stew-art. When I recited the prayers at the swearing-in it went absolutely worldwide crazy. I didn’t realise what I had done for people and it was really nice.

What’s the worst thing anyone’s said to you?

Go back to your country. And I get puzzled there because this is my country, this is where I was born and brought up, I don’t know anything more. India to me was a holiday. I was born in Scotland, I’m Glaswegian and I’m proud to be Glaswegian.

Once in Bellahouston Park, me and my mum were out for a walk, and two young children shouted, ‘go back to your country Paki’, and I was going to answer back and my mother said to me, ‘don’t do it’.

She was scared, worried that somebody might pull a knife. And I said, ‘no, I’m going to answer back’ and I said, ‘well if you were actually in school, that’s where you should be at this time, you would actually know the difference between a Pakistani and Indian and you’d also know that I’m British. Born in this country, right? So I think you should go back to school to learn some more’.

One of the boys left, another one threw a flower at me. Normally, I wouldn’t have called out something like that, but I just thought no, I’m going to answer back because they actually don’t know the difference.

What’s your most treasured possession?

It’s a black and white photo of Laurel and Hardy. My dad took me to the Barrowlands and I’d never been there, and he bought me that. It hangs in my house with great pride.

What do you dislike about your appearance?

I’m going to be honest, there’s nothing I dislike about my appear-ance because I believe that you need to be kind to yourself and love yourself first before you look after others

What’s your guilty pleasure?

White wine and milk chocolate. What a combination. Definitely guilty of that.

If you could go back in time, where would you go?

It would have to be when my dad and my sister were alive, because obviously I didn’t know, and none of us knew, that life was going to be so short for them.

What’s the best piece of advice you’ve ever had?

Never stop learning no matter what you do. I left school with no qualifications and I have just handed in my PhD last year. I started learning much later because my dad died, so I had to run the business. I started studying in my mid-20s and I am still studying and I’m going to be 50 this year.

What’s the worst pain you’ve ever experienced?

I caught Covid on the 13th of March 2020. I will never forget those three weeks because every day I couldn’t sleep. I didn’t think I was going to recover. That was probably the worst experience in my life, the closest encounter to death.

What’s your top film or TV programme of all time?

The Wizard of Oz. Every year at Christmas time, I sit and wait to watch it. It doesn’t matter if you’ve got the recording, you just wait on TV for it to come on. I don’t think it came on this year! On TV programmes, I’d have to say Peaky Blinders. I love that gangster politics drama where you just don’t know what’s going to happen. I love Tommy Shelby.

What was your best holiday ever?

I absolutely love India. From the city life to going to see the Taj Mahal, going up in the mountains to Shimla and doing walks in the mountains, to the village life.

What was the last book you read?

The Boy in Striped Pyjamas. It was so sad. The innocence of all those children held in those camps.